The UK is still European. It just gave up on the EU

This was posted on a Facebook page of a friend of mine
POST:Democracy is not being sacrificed just because there’s the EU.
No Nation is demanded to give up their national Identity. Calling for the closing of borders out of fear of too many immigrants entering one’s Nation, or too much influence on one’s Nation from the outside (the EU), that’s not nationhood. It’s xenophobic and nationalist.
The UK chose to leave which is sad but it’s also to be accepted.
Many of your younger fellow citizens feel that your Generation robbed them off their rights as Europeans, which is in fact true. How much democracy is there really in forcing the will of hardly 3% in the majority upon the other half?
The dreams that evoked the decision to leave the EU will not come true. It was an unfortunate vote.

This is my reply
ANSWER: Contrary to what you say, Sian (name changed) it was my generation that GAVE your generation (in Britain) their right to be Europeans. And that will not change. We are all Europeans now. What we have removed (temporarily I think) is their EU-ness.

1. Are you saying that Switzerland, Norway and Iceland are not European because they are not in the EU?

2. Was it the UK who put up a fence across its border earlier this year? Or was that another EU member country, Hungary? I think it was Hungary, whose Prime Minister said: “Refugees are a German problem. No-one wants to come here.” But he put up the fence just in case.

3. Is it the UK that is responsible for people trafficking on an industrial scale, particularly exporting young girls into sex slavery in France, Germany and the UK? No, that would be Albania and Macedonia, two countries the EU is negotiating membership with.

4. You are confused about national identity vs demos. The only way – the ONLY way – the Euro can operate effectively is for individual nations to give up their sovereign right to determine their own fiscal policy and hand it to a central, federal bank, treasury and chancellor. In order for that to happen, each country has to surrender its sovereign right to self-govern.

5. So, yes, democracy is being sacrificed because there is the EU. Research the subject, Hana. You will find that the plan from the very beginning was a United States of Europe. This is not a conspiracy theory. It is an actual conspiracy by civil servants, politicians and business people to create something by stealth and without democratic assent because we, the people, ‘would not understand and would not consent’.

6. I voted for the Common Market. And if the Common Market was what we still had, I would have voted to stay in. But, by stealth, what we now have is a supra-national Parliament that has no legitimacy, and a common currency that has no common fiscal control. We have tens of millions of young people out of work. This cannot, and will not stand.

7. As for ‘peace in Europe’, the Coal & Steel Federation had that covered in 1958. The development from the Coal & Steel Federation to the Common Market was a good one. From then on, every development has been bad.

8. But while we’re on the subject of ‘peace in Europe’, there have been dozens of conflicts since the Coal & Steel Federation formed. Dozens, including the wars in Bosnia and Kosovo, civil wars elsewhere and a lot of small, but damaging conflicts. The EU was powerless to intervene. It has no military status of its own. It was NATO that was called on, when necessary, to intervene.

9. It has been NATO – largely financed by America – that has kept peace, as far as it goes, in Europe. And the UK is still a member of NATO.

So, Sian, the EU has become a force not for good, but for incompetence, damage and decline. Your attachment to it is irrational. You would be better off aiming your anger at your own government for being so obstinate in not being prepared to roll back unnecessary EU powers.

Just look at the way Greece was treated last year, and is about to be again. What sort of ‘Union’ requires its members to beg for money, and forces a government – Alexis Tsipras, left wing, elected on a ‘no austerity’ ticket ‘ – to abandon its democratic mandate and force austerity on people who have just voted categorically against it?

Finally, Sian, the philosopher Bertrand Russell had this advice for young people (I’m paraphrasing): “Don’t think about any matter in terms as you would wish it to be, or as you think it ought to be. Look only at the facts”. If you look at the facts of the EU, and study them, as I have for the past 40 years (but much more seriously in the past 10), and put your emotions to one side, your intellect will begin to tell you a different story.

If you want that story to have a better end, you have to start arguing not for the status quo, but for something different, something that is ‘less’, something that is sustainable. And above all, something that is democratic and does not benefit the peoples of a few nations while damaging the peoples of other nations.

While thinking about it – with your intellect, not your heart – have Greece, Portugal, Spain and Italy (also bankrupt) in your mind, rather than Germany and France. The story will feel very different.

See the whole thread here

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